Horizon Platform Community opinions please what is the better dividend: Pay out in ASSET or pay out in NHZ?
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Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • ThinkI

    11th September 2014 at 2:07 am

    I want to hear your opionions to a question I am pondering:
    what is the better dividend: Pay out in ASSET or pay out in NHZ?

    E.g. this asset USDbitfnx has decided to pay out dividends in the form of more USDbitfnx, translated by market prices: “How will the dividends be paid? Every 11200 blocks or 2 weeks the dividends will be paid. Every asset holder of USDbitfnx will receive his dividends paid in USDbitfnx. Example …”

    Quite as well one could choose to pay out dividends in the underlying currency.

    Or probably even pay out dividends in the form of a second asset.

    What are your opinions on this?

    I cite from my original post https://www.facebook.com/groups/NxtHorizonCrypto/permalink/771583006239457/ which actually included a technical question (1) which I have already posted into a separate thread: http://forum.nhzcrypto.org/index.php/topic,375.0.html – but here now my question (2):

    I am wondering about dividends.
    1) How to pay them? And
    2) in which form?

    Hmmm … Dividends are paid in relation to some income/interest, let’s say quarterly, 4 times a year. Imagine I want to pay dividends for my previously sold asset NHZZZZ (with total 1 mio shares) … because that listed part of my company ‘ZZZ’ has made 9500$ in that quarter.
    On that day … imagine it were today … I convert that 9500$ to 20 BTC, then to 40 million NHZ – all cool. All my shareholders should now get something that has the value of 40 NHZ for each 1 NHZZZZ they hold that day.

    So for example, if someone holds 10 000 of NHZZZZ shares (1%), he should get something that is worth 400 000 NHZ = 0.2 BTC = 95 $ as a dividend. So far so good.

    (2)
    But in which currency?

    (2a) Would you simply transfer more ‘NHZZZZ’ to all shareholders of ‘NHZZZZ’, in relation to the current price of NHZZZZ?

    (2b) Or would you pay out the dividends in NHZ?

    Thanks for your attention!
    And: Thanks for NHZ !

    If you want to support me & my work:?
    NHZ-PZTY-4YZN-AW86-B6DVZ? -Thanks

    Jerical13
    Participant

    Horizon: 0.00 HZ
    11th September 2014 at 2:19 am

    ‘AndreasKae link’ wrote:
    I want to hear your opionions to a question I am pondering:
    what is the better dividend: Pay out in ASSET or pay out in NHZ?

    E.g. this asset USDbitfnx has decided to pay out dividends in the form of more USDbitfnx, translated by market prices: \”How will the dividends be paid? Every 11200 blocks or 2 weeks the dividends will be paid. Every asset holder of USDbitfnx will receive his dividends paid in USDbitfnx. Example …\”

    Quite as well one could choose to pay out dividends in the underlying currency.

    Or probably even pay out dividends in the form of a second asset.

    What are your opinions on this?

    I cite from my original post https://www.facebook.com/groups/NxtHorizonCrypto/permalink/771583006239457/ which actually included a technical question (1) which I have already posted into a separate thread: http://forum.nhzcrypto.org/index.php/topic,375.0.html – but here now my question (2):

    I am wondering about dividends.
    1) How to pay them? And
    2) in which form?

    Hmmm … Dividends are paid in relation to some income/interest, let’s say quarterly, 4 times a year. Imagine I want to pay dividends for my previously sold asset NHZZZZ (with total 1 mio shares) … because that listed part of my company ‘ZZZ’ has made 9500$ in that quarter.
    On that day … imagine it were today … I convert that 9500$ to 20 BTC, then to 40 million NHZ – all cool. All my shareholders should now get something that has the value of 40 NHZ for each 1 NHZZZZ they hold that day.

    So for example, if someone holds 10 000 of NHZZZZ shares (1%), he should get something that is worth 400 000 NHZ = 0.2 BTC = 95 $ as a dividend. So far so good.

    (2)
    But in which currency?

    (2a) Would you simply transfer more ‘NHZZZZ’ to all shareholders of ‘NHZZZZ’, in relation to the current price of NHZZZZ?

    (2b) Or would you pay out the dividends in NHZ?

    Thanks for your attention!
    And: Thanks for NHZ !

    If you want to support me & my work:?
    NHZ-PZTY-4YZN-AW86-B6DVZ? -Thanks

    What about the possibility of offering a choice between the two, or a combination of both? The AE functionality gives you a lot of flexibility, and the more options you could provide to your potential share holders, the more your shares would be desired.

    AndreasKae
    Participant

    Horizon: 0.00 HZ
    13th September 2014 at 12:13 pm

    yes, flexibility seems good at a first glance – but it is also a perhaps unnecessary complication. And most people do not like choice as much, as you might think.

    Eventually, however the dividend is paid, as long as it is convertible, it doesn’t matter so much, anyways – so the recipient can always choose to sell his asset dividend for underlying currency – or vice versa.

    And personally, I’d much prefer a semi-automatic system, which can be run with a one-liner, once it is fully set up, and configured.

    The easier the system, the more frequent the dividends could be paid out. The easier the solution, the more people will use it.

    Pharesim
    Keymaster

    Horizon: 123.50 HZ
    13th September 2014 at 7:11 pm

    I think I’d prefer NHZ
    Makes it easier for you too, as you don’t have to buy assets to pay out dividends.

    oly
    oly
    Participant

    Horizon: 97.50 HZ
    16th September 2014 at 10:42 pm

    As a general rule, I would prefer NHZ, but when an asset is climbing, getting paid in the asset is pretty sweet too.

    Ideally I’d like to see the ability for issuers to choose either method of payout.

    Jerical13
    Participant

    Horizon: 0.00 HZ
    18th September 2014 at 3:42 pm

    I guess it really depends on certain specifications. If You are looking for the fastest, easiest method to operate, or what your purpose or business model is. the easiest would be in NHZ. You could leave room to change this possibly.

    Vagabondz
    Participant

    Horizon: 0.00 HZ
    27th November 2014 at 6:33 pm

    Personally, I think HZ payouts makes the most sense. The HZ payouts will always have far more intrinsic value than the paired asset, regardlesss of what asset it is, since HZ can be asset-swapped at any time.

    One profit model that would actually work with an asset-payout is that of an extended loan. EX: raise initial funding, issue shareholders more shares over time as the asset gains value (gains capital, equipment, etc) then determine a time period at the end of which all shares get bought back by the management. Of course for this model, I would make the trade-in HZ value the same as the buy-back, thus. meaning inveator profits will come from newly issued shares.

    A big issue with this buyback model as opposed to something that pays out weekly, is there is far greater risk. For weekly payouts, legitimacy is verified each week; if investors get paid, then that means the asset still has some kind of worth. For a time delayed buyback, you have no guarantees and no views into the futute; anything can happen and make the buyback impossible.

    ThinkI
    Participant

    Horizon: 0.00 HZ
    17th December 2014 at 12:36 am

    Hi, new member here.

    In my opinion the danger of receiving shares and not HZ is that it is very easy to end up investing in a Ponzi scheme! Even if it did not start as a Ponzi!

    Say I issue 1 billion shares in my new enterprise, because I am going to pay you in shares. You buy shares for NH, I pocket the NH and issue share dividends. All the while I claim to be doing something (which perhaps I was at the start) that makes NH. I tell you the value of the company in NH on a regular basis so you know how much your shares are worth and I issue more shares as dividends. You buy more shares for HZ and I pocket them.

    Eventually I run out of shares, is this the end of the Ponzi? No! I issue a new asset as assets of the company (which all the asset holders agree to) and continue this forever because it is cheap to issue new assets and you keep giving me HZ.

    If on the other hand the dividend was in HZ then I would have run out of HZ a long time ago and the Ponzi would have collapsed.

    The temptation to head into Ponzi land, to save face when things go wrong or fuel an ego is far to great for the average person. The idea will sit at the back of their head and nag and nag until an opportunity comes for it to be fulfilled. Remember that, when you shout scam. For the less than average person, though, who thinks taking your HZ and giving nothing in return is Capitalism at its finest, being able to create a Ponzi is far to tempting an opportunity to pass.

    I would not recommend accepting shares as dividends except in very limited circumstances.

    USDbitfnx is not a ponzi scheme (as far as I can tell) because the assets can be exchanged for dollars or BTC at any time and are being exchanged. This means the assets are being recycled not just issued and there has to be backing to do this. Whether there is enough backing for all assets is a different question but the number of assets in distribution is not growing particularly fast either which makes the backing plausible.

    Could USDbitfnx become a Ponzi? The most likely scenario is that there was a theft and the issuer did not want to admit it. In this case unbacked assets might be issued and a step towards a Ponzi made. There is no need for this step to be permanent however because reducing the dividend rate would allow lost capital to be restored, eventually. There is however a risk, as there is with any asset that issues shares, of becoming a Ponzi.

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